Human friendly???

It is easy to understand why the APBT was bred to be game, yet one of the most common arguments we use to promote the positiveness of the breed is to say they where also selectively bred to be human friendly to the extent of actually culling dogs that displayed signs of human aggression Why?

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zzzzzzzz

I agree with the above, Human Aggresive dogs would be much harder to condition making them less competitive in the [] and if they lost they'd be culled.

But also, many of the famous dogs, the start of some of the bloodlines have been questionable and some have been down right man eaters, E.G. Gr Ch Zebo was a very human Aggresive dog but was so good he couldn't be culled or kept out of the program, also Walling's Bullyson was supposed to be a dangerous character.

Maybe what I've heard is just hearsay/slandering from other dogmen but I'm 99% sure that's what I heard.

Is it not a canine trait to be human friendly?? All breeds of dogs are capable of living in harmony with humans. Is it possible that our forefathers bred a dog that became out of control and to dangerous to handle by breeding OUT the human friendly trait. Realising this they had to selectively breed a dog that was human friendly. If this was the case then dog men of old cannot take the credit for this trait it was always there from the beginning. Hope nobody takes me up wrongly here on this thread I am only looking to be educated by the knowledgeable APBT enthusiasts as I have a keen interest as I am always trying to understand what were the men of old trying to achieve and why?

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Ivor, I know what you mean by trying to stay within the rules of posting for this one, I had to repremand myself several times and edit post before I could send it lol lol. I think you hit the nail on the head there when you talk about stability, and I have to agree with you regarding vets and certain breeds it is a fact of life that no matter how friendly your dog is when under stress or in pain there are particular breeds that become very difficult to handle.

Have another question (verging on the hyperthetical), would like to know what everybodies opinions are on this:- It it very apparent to all of us that most APBT owners are responsible and are not keeping these dogs for illegal purposes. With selective breeding would it be possible to breed some of the dog aggression issues out of these dogs and if so would it still suit the needs of todays owners. Do you think that other important traits would be lost if this was to happen and would it matter.

zzzzzzzzz

Ricky is it a forgone conclusion that the SBT is the result of deliberately breeding certain behavioural traits out of these dogs. I thought it was more to do with dog politics and kennel clubs orgs that where trying to vere away from the PIT Dog and its connotations that merely changed the name of the dog to Am Staff.

I think breeding a Pitbull terrier specifically to be not DA would be the same as breeding GSD's or Rott's to like strangers, it's going away completely from the breeds roots.

Also to breed away from Aggresive dogs would probably mean breeding away from high drive dogs as the non-Aggresive ones tend to be the quiet dogs who aren't very interested in anything = cold. This would mean after a few gens you'd have dogs fit for nothing.

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YENALED1 wrote:It is easy to understand why the APBT was bred to be game, yet one of the most common arguments we use to promote the positiveness of the breed is to say they where also selectively bred to be human friendly to the extent of actually culling dogs that displayed signs of human aggression Why?

The answer to this is very simple , APBT where bred to do a job and one job only ,yes ppl have put APBT to work in other ways and keep them as pets but at the end of the day they are fighting dogs thats what they are like it or lump it.

The reason they must be human friendly is so the dog can be handled while its working and handled during aftercare,
Also because of the high drive ,tenacity and power of the breed to have a man eater is extreamly dangerous because of the damage these dogs can do,

I have no time for genuine man eaters and would not hesitate to put one down at the first sign of aggression towards ppl and have done it before with one of my own who turned out ppl aggressive they are just not worth it.

I suppose when we all think of these dogs as super human friendly we fail to realise this was something that was done purley to keep handlers safe while pitting these dogs against each other, and not for the benefit of the regular pet owner. When you think of it like that its slightly misleading because if the full explanation was given why these dogs are human friendly the picture wouldnt be as nice. James it cuts to the quick a bit when you refere to these dogs as working, is that what the term is when 2 dogs are pulling each other to bits and fighting for their lives.......working? As I said earlier I am only looking to understand what makes 'dog men' tick and what they hoped to achieve by creating this breed of dog. Does anyone think that dog men of old and present would have prefered if the regular pet owners never got their hands on these dogs. I know that is far fetched but hyperthetically speaking I wonder???

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YENALED1 wrote:James it cuts to the quick a bit when you refere to these dogs as working, is that what the term is when 2 dogs are pulling each other to bits and fighting for their lives.......working? As I said earlier I am only looking to understand what makes 'dog men' tick and what they hoped to achieve by creating this breed of dog. Does anyone think that dog men of old and present would have prefered if the regular pet owners never got their hands on these dogs. I know that is far fetched but hyperthetically speaking I wonder???

Jules I tought the term working would be better than ripping each other to pieces !
What do you say when a springer is in and out of ditches or when a collie is herding sheep ?
When a breed of dog does what it was bred to do its called work !

And I think a lot of "dogmen" did/do resent that these dogs got into the hands of the public because when you actully think about it for a minute its not dogs kept by dogmen that are doing damage to ppl or other ppls pets or are in the media, its the dogs that are kept and bred by irresponsible miseducated ppl as pets who think their dog is just like any other dog .

i read an interview floyd boudreaux did a few years ago . he has made a huge input to where the apbt is today. he said in all his time around the breed only 1 dog tried to bite him, wallings bullyson . his take on dogs biting humans was to put the dog to sleep , he didnt put the dog down for trying to bite him but he said he knocked the dog out with a shovel and he never tried again

I think without a doubt dogmen would be very happy if no APBT was owned by a Pet Owner. There's never any dog attack stories in the paper coming from a dogman's yard. It's always the type of owner who has the dog for the wrong reasons OR equally someone who bought one as a Pet and doesn't respect the dog's history.

On the other hand, if only dog men had APBT's, everyone (including the Law) would know why.

YENALED1 wrote:I suppose when we all think of these dogs as super human friendly we fail to realise this was something that was done purley to keep handlers safe while pitting these dogs against each other, and not for the benefit of the regular pet owner. When you think of it like that its slightly misleading because if the full explanation was given why these dogs are human friendly the picture wouldnt be as nice.

you said when the truth is unveiled its slightly misleading when in fact ppl who think its misleading have actully been mislead in the first place by ppl who belive they are doing the breed a service by portraying the breed as an ideal family pet which if brought up right will be just like the lab down the road these ppl who preach this B.S think they are doing the breed good but they are doing more damage than they realise,

I think sites like this should not try to hide or sugar coat the reasons and purpose of what the APBT was bred for I think the breed would be better off if ppl really knew the truth about what they where getting into .
Jules you have found out yourself that these dogs can be a pain in the arse,if everyone knew this most wouldnt go out and buy them then there wouldnt be as many in the pound,

JUST THE HUMBLE OPINON OF AN OLD MAN,human agression in a dog should be the same as all traits in a dog,controlled,when i was just a kid i went to a mans yard with my dad,the way that kids do i jumped out of the lorry and came face to face with the dog barking,i stood very still [shitting my pants] the man appeared at this point and the dog turned and walked off i asked him "would your dog bite me"he looked at me smiled and said "ONLY IF I TELL HIM TOO"I wish i was a kid again........lol