Letter to Minister of the Environment Re: Muzzles

There is only 1 conclusion to draw from this letter that is .....as the law stands all restricted breeds on the 'list' have to wear a muzzle from birth when in a public place. When I wrote to the minister it was simply to clear up the confusion regarding young dogs i.e puppies wearing muzzles while being classed as restricted breeds. What is frustrating is how the reply has been an attempt to distract us from the original question as I had already explained that we where fully aware of the regulations pertaining to the dogs act.

What I want to hear is the person that made the recommendations and persons who passed the bill hold their hands up and say they made a mistake regarding age. Anyway not fininshed with this I will send a second letter soon.

You'd prefer to make all the other breeds follow the stupid law when they don't currently? Why?

Harry wrote:You'd prefer to make all the other breeds follow the stupid law when they don't currently? Why?

Explain ??????

(You'd) Meaning me personally??????

No, I posted that and got the 'new post' thing from you.

What I meant was why would anyone (Ellie in this case) want to make all the other breeds do it when it's not inforced? I personally would see no positives from making all the other breeds comply aswell and as everyone knows, there's ways and means of getting around it for the members here, I'm sure Ricey and myself could make a few suggestions lol...

Harry wrote:No, I posted that and got the 'new post' thing from you.

What I meant was why would anyone (Ellie in this case) want to make all the other breeds do it when it's not inforced? I personally would see no positives from making all the other breeds comply aswell and as everyone knows, there's ways and means of getting around it for the members here, I'm sure Ricey and myself could make a few suggestions lol...

Ok see where your coming from but we must not forget and get side tracked that this letter was written regarding puppies. Our organisation certainly does not want to make any trouble for any other breed owners but what we do need is to be treated as equals. What really bugs me about the whole muzzling 'thing' is that nobody even ourselves is 100% sure about the laws in question. There is room for change maybe not all at once but if the other breed owners where to realise what this stupid law entails we might turn this around with some back-up.

I see what you're saying, if the 'other guys' had the law enforced it would bring a lot of support to the cause as there is few Pitbull owners and fewer who give a continental about the laws.

Ell2011 wrote:I think this is gas, dobermans, akita's & many more breeds are on the list but i can honestly say I have never seen any other breed (except a staff or dogs with this association) wearing muzzles on walks! Where I walk shadow theres always parkies driving around & he always pulls up next to me to check shadow has a muzzle on. I find it funny that its ok for him to badger me when my dog is on a lead & muzzled but he says nothing to the people who also own dogs on this list, that have them running around off leash & not muzzled where does it say that the rules of these dog laws only apply to pitbulls? I would love for you to bring something up about this. Oh & the park i walk in also has signs everywhere saying it is against the law for them to have their dogs at large, but still the parky lets everybody (except me) have their dogs running of lead? I have said it to him before about badgering me but allowing everybody else to brake the law & he just laughs at me & drives off

Do you know Ellie that IMO alot of these owners have no idea there dog is on the list. It is also a fact that most Gardai have no idea what breeds of dogs are on the list either unless you have a pit bull. We all know that no matter what breed of dog you have you have to keep it under control but these rules are never enforced. That law is there should something go wrong and not as a prevention. It is only in certain counties you might get a bit of grief if your stopped while walking your pit bull without a muzzle, but generally it goes un-noticed elswhere. What we have to keep in mind is, Our dogs are priority and what ever it takes to keep the heat off and protect them, then for now IPBTA members have to do this. I dont know if it would be a good idea but if everytime there was an incident where our dogs are attacked by another we should go and make a statement and report it. Because most of these incidents go un-noticed and never documented the stats for dog attacks are inaccurate and often tell the wrong story. If we where to make formal statements I bet the stats would look alot different.

Harry wrote:I see what you're saying, if the 'other guys' had the law enforced it would bring a lot of support to the cause as there is few Pitbull owners and fewer who give a continental about the laws.

Kinda but just letting other breed owners know about it might be enough. You will find that breeders of Dobes, Rotties and GS etc that have been breeding these dogs for years have a small understanding of the law but breeds that have become popular over the past 20+ years (Akita etc) most owners have no idea that it exists, or what it demands.

Harry wrote:Did you see what Jules wrote? Lol.. It says once it's in public it should be muzzled unless it's a Lab X...

didnt even see the last bit harry..... can ya even get muzzles that small.... poor puppies having to wear one... outrageous

it just goes to show how foolish some laws are.

Sorry for getting off track and having a rant just gets to me how pitbull owners (well me at least) get treated like our dogs some wild beast that will kill anyone & everything, but other breeds that are on this list are able to run free with no muzzle & even no leash! Its just the fact I'v seen so many park wardens turn a blind eye to this but I always seem to get stop and badgered, even though my dog is under control & muzzled... Recently i was talking to a fella with a staffie puppy in the park & he told me the park warden told him to muzzle it, now this puppy was ony maybe 3months old thats just shocking to me that a little harmless puppy should be muzzled but all the akitas & dobies dont have to be? Like we were taken to court & fined over not having a muzzle on shadow one day, it was last summer & my brother had her down the park & he took her muzzle off for a few minutes so she could drink out of the river & next thing you know we have a summons come in the door! Just gets my blood boiling because all we seem to get is abuse over owning a pit but nobody takes any notice of the other owners who dont obay at all

I know someone and he was told by a woman dog warden to muzzle his British Bulldog, this dog weighs in or around 8st lol... Most guards/law enforcement don't know the difference between a Jack Russell and a Patterdale, never mind a Staff and a Pit..

What I don't understand about the law is this: Who decides if the dog is a Pitbull or not? Is there any part of the law that says the Dog Warden/Garda can decide on the spot your dog is breed X or breed Y? Why can you not say your dog is a mongrel?

apparently a measuring tape does

But there's no measurements.

I have never said to any of the park wardens that she is a pitbull, but they seem to know she is some kind of restricted breed... Same with the garda but they can tell she's a restricted breed... I always play stupid & say she's some kind of mix breed & the usual reply I get is "oh so she's a pitbull type?" I always just say I dont know, hoping I wont end up with another ear full about how dangerous they are & blah blah blah, the usual rant. Swear I was a criminal or something

im happy to say that i dont seem to hav the problems that you guys hav as regards muzzles. the local guards havent stoped me and told me to use a muzzle even though the squad car passes me a few times a day while im out walking or just going through town with the dog. they seem to take it case by case one of my buddies is constantly being told to muzzle his dog even though his dog is in no way aggressive, the cops just dont like him. i continue to hav a muzzle in my jacket pocket just incase and when there is an event in town where more than just the local cops are needed i muzzle cindy. last week a guard i know even stoped gave the dog a rub and carried on without even mentioning a muzzle at all

im using the canny collars so i dont use a muzzle while im using them..... have had garda slow down and look, go around a roundabout to come back up, some that are on foot ask can they rub them but i tell them vito will jump up and they dont seem to mind at all. think tho they kno there well behaved and there on short leads so they dont bother me. its the ppl that start and they always seem to say it to lia so i told her to tell to mind there business and they should be wearing a muzzle( ok must point out lia doesnt bring the dogs out unless there is an adults with her, this happens outside the shop if i pop in for smokes). they see me and thomas with them all the time and never open there mouths. i swear ill lamp one on them for saying it to her. bless them they just sit there as good as gold. dogs walking by they dont even react.

hi i'm an owner of 3 english bull terriers (EBT) just trying to find out if there was ever a case of an (EBT) attacking a person in ireland. and who are the men and women that decided to put these dogs on a banned list. my three are the most relaxed dogs i ever had the kids on the street knock on our door to see if they can come out to play. every day i walk my dogs in town the gardai stop me for no muzzles for this reason alone i can't walk them in town let alone leave out when kids call to look at them. i was stopped yesterday by a guard again i told her i'd get a muzzle. and that was it till next time, but just two minutes later a jack russle came running at me and attacked my dog he did nothing only stood there while this little aggrrisve little dog barked and bit him where were the gardai then. i just think it unfair we need to work together to get this so called BANNED DOGS LIST changed

Ixxxxxxx

my girlfriend seen an EBT shaking a woman down at the school one day , the dog was on a green area with it owner on a lead the woman was talking to the owner because she has a pitbull so they got chatting your man told her the dog was grand she was petting him for a while and when she stood up the dog switched and grabbed her by the back of her upper arm , it could of been any type of dog no breed is 100% reliable around ppl but if the owner had done something as simple as slipping a muzzle on the dog it would of never happened... you can buy a good muzzle for about 20 euro and its 20 euro well spent coz it cuts out so much hassle..

by me putting a muzzle on my dogs makes them look dangerous and will stop people from petting them and letting there dogs near them so this will stop me from socoilizing them. i would like to know where this happenend in ireland ive read in an artical about the most attacks on children is by labadours and cocker spaniles but there not classed as banned dogs. only last month a collie attacked a young girl walking her dog past why aren't the on the list. u should be tested with ur dog on aggerssion and ur skills on trainning every year to get ur licence

xxxxxx

I think what Ricky said is true, it's natural that when there is more of a certain breed of dog, there'll be a higher % of trouble from that breed. There is no 'dog census' so it is close to impossible to get a % of a particular breed that causes trouble.

I also agree with Ricky where he said about breeds bred for their mouth/bite. I'm not saying a Retriever like mine will do no damage (I've seen the way they chomp on bones) but my dogs can't/don't destroy toys like footballs/tennisballs/kongs etc. Whereas most of the members here can't give their dogs toys like that because they would be destroyed.

your rite there harry a football lasts about 15 seconds in my garden

I can imagine lol, I'm lucky with footballs because when Bobby was only about 7months me and my friend were playing football and he got a bad smack.. Never had any interest since then lol.