The Irish staffy

culabula wrote:there are lines of irish staff.Psycho,northford etc.They are off K.C show stock that were used for badger trials/dog fighting back in the seventies.Most of them have a slight trace of english bull terrier back a bit in their pedigree(and maybe a dash of pitbull)..there is the dublin red strain
as well some of whom are K.C registered.The original dublin red staffs were back in 50s and 60s so any link with todays dogs is slight, a bit like someone with the surname O Brien saying they are related to brian boru.
Probably some people do take pitbulls to the united kingdom and say they are irish staffs.There is another registry ,the Intercontinental K.C that registers athletic staffs and puts on events(pulling etc.) for them.Its run by a guy called ed reid who as far as i know,was the firs to import pitblls to europe.So in response to murfs question all four answers are correct(sometimes)

The original line is from the Geronimo dog by a breeder in Cork. Psycho has his own line which even produced Northford line. Psycho was a blue n white Staff X Pitbull, he had English Bull in him but thats going back many generations.

milesaway wrote:

celticpitbulls wrote:

STEVEN_BURKE_JNR wrote:what do the staff x pits looks like? i have both but dont know if i would breed them

you should never cross pit bulls with staffys to be honest, thats why we have so many breeds representing the pit bull even though their not but very easily mistaking for.

Im new to this board and respect what you are doing. But if your after decent workers there have been some very good staff/pits. But it depends what your after with your dogs

not really sure about what you mean when you say.... But it depends what your after with your dogs??

First of all i have seen some beautiful cross breeds of staffys and pits and other bully breeds for that matter, i have nothing against them i have rehomed and have friends with these kind of crosses, A dog that is pure bred has known parentage. You can predict to a certain point the temperament, size and appearance. You will know what type of health issues are of concern to the breed you have chosen. There is a certain amount of predictability involved. No breeder of any standing breeds to make money. There is no money made! It is a huge drain that sucks your funds. You breed for love of your chosen breed and because you believe you can make a difference with your dogs. You breed to enhance the quality of your breed and with the highest standard, You spend years studying the genetics of the dogs you have and the lines needed to bring improvement to your dogs, Mixed breeds are two dogs tossed together. They carry the same genetic material the parents do.... Mixed breed dogs can have crippling health problems that are passed on to their offspring just as much as purebred dogs can. Mixes of collies can pass on collie eye. Bulldog crosses have the same issues with joints, etc. The temperament is unknown as you have no idea which parent or background your litter will gain from and the puppies from the same group can be vastly different. so i dont see any rep breeder that would breed in such a manner?? And i believe if people were to breed for all of the above then we wouldn't have the problems we have today with these breeds. Someone who genuinely cares for a specific breed will not put two of them together willy-nilly and appreciate whatever litter comes from that. People who do this are back yard breeders/puppy mills. They are the ones who produce unhealthy dogs. And they are also contributing to the lack of homes for dogs that end up going to their miserable deaths alone and unwanted in shelters all over the world.

Lilly you couldn't have said that any better. If alot of people just kept their dog as a pet, regardless if its a thorough bred, Hybrid or just a mixed breed. We wouldnt have half of the problems today, breeding dogs, even when they first mate, is all work. Im not getting into this discussion for reasons. Its alot of hard work, research and money.

The Psycho dog as far as im aware had no Pit in him, could be wrong but when i spoke to the guy who bred him he never mentioned that. Looking at him he just looked like a staff but ive seen crosses that just look like staffs aswell so who knows really. The trouble is alot of these irish lines of staffs had peds banged on them just to make money out of them. Its like the dublin reds that famous line lol, think the boys just went round dublin finding every red staff they could find and banged a nice ped on them and bingo loads of money lol.

I dont see any wrong in breeding two decent working dogs Pit to Staff etc if you end up with a decent working dog(legal work of course). I remember staffs been shipped across the pond and been bred to Pits over there so who knows whats in the lines of alot of dogs kicking about these days.

I see your point about breeding crosses and getting unhealthy dogs, just take a look at the gotti crap thats been bred, waste of time and effort if you ask me. You can even look at alot of show stuff not just bull breeds, they have been ruined by the so called caring breeders and owners, all there interested in is winning a nice rosette or trophy.

What i ment when i said "But it depends what your after with your dogs" if your happy with having a nice looking dog or show type dog thats all well and good. I myself respect all dogs but i work the field with dogs and use workers..hence i bred worker to worker to achieve what im after.

Its like in the past when dogs were fought, which is the biggest part of these dogs history, some crosses left their mark on the sport, 2 making grand champion statues...but i wont go there.

any1 breeding crosses or breeding dogs for fighting or for any bloodsport are just little man with small man syndrome if you ask me.. i will drop the subject as most of us respect and understand the history of our dogs but i believe it should be left history.

I understand where your coming from celtic...its your board and i dont wish to upset anyone. Just a word i dont fight dogs or do anything illegal.

miles its every1s board and you are all welcome to your opinions, i wouldn't for 1 minute suggest you would do such a thing with your dogs, were just here to educate and help people and have a chat about our favorite breeds..

The best looking bull breed i ever saw was a staff x pitbull cross.a girl i know might have some pictures of him .ill try to post a picture if i get one.He was bred to several bitches and produced the ugliest pups ever to walk the earth! Temperment wise ive found the mixed dogs very calm and stable.Id be more wary about crosses with large human aggressive breeds e.g rottweilers ,american bulldogs,mastiff types.

i dont think any dogs is "human aggressive" i think its down to the owner and socialisation, my mate has a rottie bitch and i wouldn't leav him bring here any where unless on lead and muzzeled i'v done a bit of work on here and she's calmed down a bit but his brother has her brother but properly socialized the dog and he is as gentle as a fly its down to the owner iin my view

Some dogs are born like this, due to unselective breeding that unfortunatley mainly includes mix bred dogs. You dont know what genes they carry, but on the good side any dog can be trained. On the bad side alot of these pets are abandoned, because they are misunderstood. So they end up in shelters or in the wrong hands, the vicious circle just goes on. Thats why we shouldnt buy a pet from a backyard breeder, these people could be realy nice people, their dogs could be well looked after too. They are just creating more problems

yeah i'm totally against backyard breeding its a disgrace thats why we need to establish prober apbt breeder to eliminate bad breeding and then i think it'll see a decline in back yard breeder as people will have the opportunity to buy of a reputible breeder

Its a sad truth but you will never get rid of backyard breeders aslong as they have a market they will breed their dogs and are sold to anyone. I dont think the people who go to backyard breeders would buy from reputable breeders as they buy their dogs very cheap then they parade them around the streets looking hard, which leads to the bad press splashed all over the papers and tv.

It might be just me but i have always believed these dogs arnt for the general public, you need to know what your dealing with. I know genuine dogmen get a bad reputation but i have talked alot of the years with some of the best and they know what they are doing with these dogs, manny dogs are culled to stop them passing on the trait. Like it or not its the only way. So you see its not just crosses that can end up biters over the years there have been plenty of full pedigreed Pits that have been untrust worthy around people.

Well said.

I agree with pedigree dogs turning on people including their owners. I'd rather not get into it. For my own reasons. I dont agree with culling perfectly healthy pups, just because they arent up to standard what the so called dog man looks for in thes dogs. There is other ways around this, get the dog neutered or spayed to prevent them passing on undesirable genes. But can make some owner very happy for many years.

milesaway wrote:Its a sad truth but you will never get rid of backyard breeders aslong as they have a market they will breed their dogs and are sold to anyone. I dont think the people who go to backyard breeders would buy from reputable breeders as they buy their dogs very cheap then they parade them around the streets looking hard, which leads to the bad press splashed all over the papers and tv.

It might be just me but i have always believed these dogs arnt for the general public, you need to know what your dealing with. I know genuine dogmen get a bad reputation but i have talked alot of the years with some of the best and they know what they are doing with these dogs, manny dogs are culled to stop them passing on the trait. Like it or not its the only way. So you see its not just crosses that can end up biters over the years there have been plenty of full pedigreed Pits that have been untrust worthy around people.

sorry miles i have to disagree with you on that, no dog is born ether human aggressive or dog aggressive unless they have neurological problems, and neurological problems are down to bad breeding, "dog man dont only line breed they inbreed" i do understand that dog men breed for gameness this is another thing that cannot be promised to any breeding planned ether as im sure you know, as dog man did breed specifically for none human aggressive dogs i would ask why these dogs where showing these behaviors in the first place. was it the way they were bred or more likely down to the way they have been raised ie always in a run with no socializing etc so ether way neurological " bad breeding" or lack of socializing etc both human error and not down to the breed.

now coming up to it not only being the crosses that bite and but have being plenty of pedigreed pits, again this is down to the owner and the lack of knowledge on their behalf, a dog is a dog regardless of their breed, the only thing that separates breeds is performance, underneath the pit bull the rotty the cross breed is dog and the same Psychology!

even though out of any breed the pit bull was bred to be none human aggressive, why would you say you have always believed these dogs ant for the general public when in fact they were once called the nanny dog and still today well breed bully breeds along with a knowledgeable owner in my opinion are the most suitable for children.

and yes you are rite about not getting rid of the back yard breeders, but these are the people that have brought this breed to its knees by selling dogs to fools that parade them around the streets looking hard, which leads to the bad press splashed all over the papers and tv so at the end of the day who's the enemy the breeds or the human?

well said lilly. i was reading through this and was about to say that no dog on this earth is born aggressive. but you got there first. in the wild aggression is not born. the pack is calm and stable. aggression is a humans thing. we make dogs aggressive if we do not fullfil our dogs and give them what they get in the wild...food, water, excersise, socialisation, rules...

a pitbull is bred wrong over the years if it is human aggressive. it is the least human aggressive dog in the world really. in the middle of a fight the handlers have to be able to catch a dog each and take them into their corner without being bitten. if a pitbull ever bit his handler in the pit he was killed.

all this bullshit will pass. believe it of not the st. bernard used to get this press when people didnt know anything about them only their size and power. the doberman got it too.

'Alsation' Rotty Dobe they all got the bad rap I hope it sumthin i dnt like nxt time (Cough Collie Cough)

regardless of what breed is next and i doubt it if any will be.. we must always stand by the knowledge that its the owner and not the dogs harry...

yup. people get them as status dogs and dont know what theyre in for. a pit is not a beginners dog. there too determined and stubborn for a newby. some newbys could end up getting a very good dog but if they pick the wrong dog from the litter its game over before it already started. you have to pick a dog with a lower energy than your family. snickers is a very high energy dog. but so am i so i can give him what he needs. if u are a lazy bas***d you dont pick the liveliest pup coz you will not meet his standards

i had a terrier(tiny) when i was young(9-21) that was naturally born bad.The only dog ive ever come accross that id class as thoroughly evil.It wasnt the upbringing-her siblings who went elsewhere and her mother were the same.loved her though ,still miss her.The actress Mia farrow ended up with one of her daughters-i didnt old it to her-i gave it to the guy i got tiny off-who gave it to his sister in wicklow-Mia farrow was making a film called widows peak there at the time,fell in love with the dog and bought her.HOLLYWOOD-pretty good home.she was a wire fox/yorkie /staff mix.99% of people are fairly o.k too but every now and again someone like hitler or ted bundy is born(nurture?nature?).the pit mix bitch in my profile pic is the perfect example of "a nanny dog" she is so gentle and slow with small children-she throws sticks for them(with her mouth).Yet she plays completely differently with me(rough)..I dont think pitbulls or staffs are a dog for everyone(some are big old teddys ill admit) .The only difference between pits,staffs ,irish staffs is the function they were bred for and 100 odd years of geographical seperation.THEre was a study done on pit temperment in russia that i read on the net somewhere-proper scientists -animal behaviouroists.Most of them dont even want to fight other dogs,i think it was either 5% or 0.05% that they reckoned were" Trouble".I think they tested a large number of pits.Ill try and find it(o.k to post yes/no?)
95% or 99.5% with stable temperments blows away any other breed

sorry for going on a complete tangent there(sleep deprived) Irish staffs!

Post away.

Yeah some one has to keep the post man in a job

irish staff is a cross staffie pit,

Yeah it is, but some have a strain of English Bull in them too. Its very hard to notice these days but it was going back generations.. So the strain would be diluted right down..