TV3 Dog Fighting Cruelty in Ireland

Harry Just need to clarify your refering to me in your above post before I give my opinion.

harry would you ever cop on, the proff is there in black and white for you to see what im talking about. show me where it states that a pit bull is any different than any other breed other than what it was bred for?. no1 is disputing weather or not the dogs will fight or not so whats our point?

Why not blame other people it wasnt my fault or the dogs fault people let their dogs run mad around the area, you dont live in a city maybe when you do you'll get the drift. Id love to be able to walk the BOG and not have to worry about dogs coming from all corners, maybe thats why you feel your dog is such a softcock, maybe if he lived were i live he wouldnt be so soft!

I suggest you come down a gear or 2, your starting to sound like your enough man for both you and our dog, what do you want him to do to another dog may i ask or what way do you want him to react when you say.. Eddie curs out at the first sign of a challenge. Hopefully once he gets older he'll stop being such a softcock and will man up a bit,

i think its you little boy that needs to take a long look at what your saying coming across with your chit chat and little manian talk about what you think about the breed and how im wrong and talking bullshitt, come back when you've spent more than 10 mins with any pit bull nd learned something and comment then

Right, see ya Lilly.

Harry wrote:When faced with another dog, Eddie curs out at the first sign of a challenge. Hopefully once he gets older he'll stop being such a softcock and will man up a bit, but for now, I've nothing to worry about.

i have to question your thinking on this too harry. surely its a good thing that he's a 'softcock'?

being around staffies and pibbles a lot i can tell you im over the moon that dolly hasnt the slightest hint of dog aggro. sure its part of the breed and something we have to be prepared for as owners but that doesnt mean its easy so i cant understand why you would want eddie to 'man up'.

do you really want a dog that goes off the charts everytime he gets a sniff of another dog?

........

I have to agree with Lilly on Butch's dog aggression not being her fault. I live in a built up area with alot of stupid and irresponible dog owners who never have their dogs on a lead and unfortunately every day I have to deal with off lead dogs, especially small dogs trying to attack my dog who is always on a lead in the estate I live in. My dog is a staffie and not an APBT and when I got her she was not very dog aggressive but now after having a few run ins with off lead aggressive little shites she is extremely dog aggressive. I now have to carry a stick or hurl if walking her in the estate to stop any dogs attacking her. It got so bad with one neighbour who lets their dog run loose on my road that I now have to drive to an industrial estate and walk my dog through waste ground where my chances of bumping into other dogs are very little. It's such a shame that people cannot be more responsible with their dogs the way I am but that's life.

i have the same problem with dusty when on the lead and other dogs come up off the lead she gets aggressive if she cant walk away from them (cause she is on the lead)

if dusty is off the lead and another dogs walks up to her there never a problem she will either play with the other dog or walk off and do her own thing

RickyB wrote:
I just think your lucky the two bitches that they are very docile...they are not typical acting APBTs..

No ricky its took a lot of work to have my dogs like that around the house, my dogs are not allowed to reach a levil of excitment because this is were many people make the mistake. I wouldnt say their an exception it can be done with any pit bull.

RickyB wrote: generally you can't keep 3 APBTs together, females are usually very aggressive towards each other...

It boiles down to their living environment ricky, living a different life than others and hard work being on their back correcting any unwanted behavior instead of nurturing and encouraging it.

RickyB wrote: APBTs have been selected for hundreds of years..to be dog aggressive and they do not need to be encouraged to be dog aggressive it comes naturally to them...its inherited and a breed feature...

I dont believe that ricky, the APBT has being selectivity bred for 100s of years for gameness, another trait that is promised to no1 when breeding, gameness and aggression are 2 different things with 1 being heart and the other being the mind.

Would take me too long to reply to each individual post but what i will say is that this could go on forever & no-one agree as folk have their opinions & they're entitled to them.

my opinion is that everybody who knows these dogs knows they excel in combat but thats not the only thing that separates them from other breeds. its their desire to engage other dogs which sets them apart, they are made this way through many generations of breeding & any who didn't want to engage were culled out & not bred.

it's a fine line we tread when telling ppl that they're just like any other breed as it couldn't be further from the truth, nearly every other breed i know could interact with other dogs in large numbers but not apbt's. this isn't because they can go if a fight starts but it's because they will start, no ifs, and or buts about it.

having 3 grown apbts living peacefully in a house you need to be very lucky or Cesar Milan, haha. are the 3 left together even when there's no1 in? curious is all.

^^ agree.

you can even see it in the dogs that arent full on aggro, a lot of them still want to get in other dogs faces even if it leads to nothing. the bravery and drive in them is phenomenal even if they arent DA.

ive no issue with anyone with a physco dog as long as they handle them in the proper way but im not sure if i'd be into it. had experience of it with our old ridgeback and it can get hairy at times!

Its not that they can kill or maim other dogs its that they want to!

should breeders be looking at moving on from that trait now though. im not one to say what a dog should be like but i would hope no-one decent is looking to fight their dogs so is the time not right to breed in different traits but at the same time keep the drive for sports like agility or such.

or is that just turning them into an amstaff?

i have 7 dogs,6 are sbt,s and 1whippet x beddy they are all good [not just my opinion]but for obvious reasons we keep them apart when un attended,that way most problems are avoided.................i feel i must add that this thread is getting way off topic now and as such could be used as ammo for the haters,what none of us need to do is hand victory to them.........................be lucky,see you all soon from the UK

PS,OUR PROBLEMS OVER HERE ARE FAR WORSE THAN YOURS ,AVOID AT ALL COST THE BANNING OF BREEDS IN YOUR COUNTRY[BSL] IS A CROCK OF poo

Dolly_SBT wrote: you can even see it in the dogs that arent full on aggro, a lot of them still want to get in other dogs faces even if it leads to nothing. the bravery and drive in them is phenomenal even if they arent DA.
ive no issue with anyone with a physco dog as long as they handle them in the proper way but im not sure if i'd be into it. had experience of it with our old ridgeback and it can get hairy at times!.

Thats my hole point, it can happen with any breed. The pit mostly is a very hyper dog and can cause another dog to make a snap at it thats how easy it can start, its the same for the pit bull, he can be there minding his own business and a dog can be n a high level of excitement that can very easily spark things off, its common behavior in all breeds not just the APBT!

DECANIO wrote: my opinion is that everybody who knows these dogs knows they excel in combat but thats not the only thing that separates them from other breeds.

Thats talking pit world DECANIO were talking pet world were pet owners choose to do the opposite and prevent them from excelling in any combat. There's a different way of living for dogs that live in a yard to dogs that live indoors when it comes to a pit dog and a pet dog even if their bred from the same stock. If a dog is not working its breed origin and its being used as a pet then you treat it and train it and 9 times out of 10 it will excel in the task that you provide for it just like any other breed.
Again dog mentality wise there is no logic prof that states anywhere that can prove pit bulls have a different psychology than any other breed, dogs regardless of their breed are all the 1 species, the pit bull is no exception its a dog. Again pointing out and agreeing the difference between breeds is their ability in combat, but there's nothing more and nothing less the rest depends on the reasons you own them and the experience and knowledge you have.

DECANIO wrote: its their desire to engage other dogs which sets them apart, they are made this way through many generations of breeding & any who didn't want to engage were culled out & not bred.
it's a fine line we tread when telling ppl that they're just like any other breed as it couldn't be further from the truth, nearly every other breed i know could interact with other dogs in large numbers but not apbt's. this isn't because they can go if a fight starts but it's because they will start, no ifs, and or buts about it.

Well come down to me one day ill show you any amount of pits that can be comfortable and play with other dogs without causing a fight and ill also show you any amount of pits you like that would be only to happy to start, its no different than any other breed when it comes to a fight or who will start it, Its the out come is what people need to be aware of if it happens to be a pit bull involved.

DECANIO wrote: having 3 grown apbts living peacefully in a house you need to be very lucky or Cesar Milan, haha. are the 3 left together even when there's no1 in? curious is all.

Yes and have done from the start. Even when i got my first pit in the 80s he was left with my little terrier bitch in the house and the little bitch was the boss lol. there's many a member here that have being to my home and seeing how well my dogs get on with each other, of course they have run in's every dog does i can feed them together too, they get on better than some non pit bull packs i know lol

I agree with what you say when you said this tread can go on and on and everyone is entitled to their opinion, no1 is denying the fact that most pits wont back down or like to have a go, no1 is denying the fact that these dogs can cause serious damage in the wrong hands, whats being stated here is that its origin does not have to get in the way of it being a pet dog it will adapt and learn like any other breed if not better.

celticpitbulls wrote:

Thats my hole point, it can happen with any breed. The pit mostly is a very hyper dog and can cause another dog to make a snap at it thats how easy it can start, its the same for the pit bull, he can be there minding his own business and a dog can be n a high level of excitement that can very easily spark things off, its common behavior in all breeds not just the APBT!

definitly. you only need to walk around any estate to see jackers putting it up to any dog they walk past. yorkies are another dog that seem to be very DA, especially the ones with senior owners (for whatever reason).

there's a husky type dog up our way that recently tore up a rednose. poor ceasar is a gentle fella and didnt fight back. the bleedin husky yoke is a terrorist

Dolly_SBT wrote:should breeders be looking at moving on from that trait now though. im not one to say what a dog should be like but i would hope no-one decent is looking to fight their dogs so is the time not right to breed in different traits but at the same time keep the drive for sports like agility or such.

or is that just turning them into an amstaff?

lol another controversial issue lol

As the breed was never bred for looks I think when breeding for looks is when you start drifting away, hence the AM STAFF. Its the same dog nothing bred in or out of them but yet so different. Dog fighting is illegal and the APBT being historically bred for this then we try find other alternatives as close as we can such as particular sports that can bring out some but not all of the traits such as endurance, wind and a certain type of gameness. Now hold your horses before you all fall off lol im not saying or even trying to compare this type of gameness to the gameness required or expected in combat, im talking about being determent and willing to keep going, stamina, and endurance in certain disciplines set up. I think if a dog is bred for performance then you wouldn't really change anything once you breed pure bred dog to pure bred dog its keeping more to the dogs origin than breeding for colour and big heads.

'performace breeding' perfect term for what i was talking about

breeding for colour with no regard for temperment is pure stupidity. FFS, whether they're white, black or purple and yellow they still look great :D

but yeah, that gameness can be refocused. we've moved on from 'the bad old days' surely the dogs can too?

they dont need to lose that full on drive, it just needs a new focus. you met dolly and saw her temperment, she's friendly and inquisitive with other dogs. the only time she gets aggro is if a male tries to get on her. but put her down near wildlife or game and she turns into a completely different beast. that prey drive is just as full on but a lot easier to contain and it makes walking and socialising a lot nicer.

obviously this is all just my opinions, im sure there are plenty of people that like the original standard and want the dogs kept that way.

Thats it, different strokes for different folks.

Dolly ridgebacks are naturally a guarding breed so i'm not surprised that 1 was a psycho, i'd hazard a guess & say it was HA...

Celtic there is also no proof to suggest pitbulls don't have a different psychology than any other breed. true they are 1 species but from 1 breed to the next they are vastly different in appearence, temperament, athletic abiltiy etc etc etc, the list goes on. I'm merely stating my opinion & views on what i believe to be correct on the topic, not everyone or maybe no-one agrees but thats my story & thats what i'm sticking to.

i've had dogs all my life, various breeds, only owned pitbulls the past 2yrs & the learning curve is steep, will say that i have to be on my guard 24/7 but would i change the dog or how it acts because of that? No chance!

DECANIO wrote:Dolly ridgebacks are naturally a guarding breed so i'm not surprised that 1 was a psycho, i'd hazard a guess & say it was HA...

you would think so but he wasnt HA at all. he was originally a guard dog but was deemed useless as he used to lick people under the gate where the previous owner had him

DECANIO wrote:
Celtic there is also no proof to suggest pitbulls don't have a different psychology than any other breed.

Yes there is, They react to the same things as any other breed reacts in certain circumstances, their learning ability is of the same if not better then other breeds due to their focus. This indicates that you can control a behavior such as aggression because its a state of mind but not his ability in combat because he is made this way to have this genetic make up by selective breeding. In other words he'll be anything you want him to be if you know how to enhance it and thats what makes the APBT different and more of a challenge to own then other breeds, its their upper-hand in ability and not their psychology.

DECANIO wrote: true they are 1 species but from 1 breed to the next they are vastly different in appearence, temperament, athletic abiltiy etc etc etc, the list goes on. I'm merely stating my opinion & views on what i believe to be correct on the topic, not everyone or maybe no-one agrees but thats my story & thats what i'm sticking to.

Forums are about debate and hearing peoples opinions and everyone is entitled to there's.

Yes there is what? That's not proof that's your opinion.

It's as simple as this, if people keep preaching that ' no different from any other breed ' bullshit ( that 1s for you Harry ) then you're effectively leading lambs to the slaughter. Not good for the dogs involved, not good for the people involved & definitely not good for the breed!

im not sure if you're reading into it the right way decanio. i dont think anyone is saying that they're just like any breed in such a simplistic way. the words may have been typed but its fairly clear to me that they arent words to be taken quite so literally.

ive had the pleasure of meeting a few of the people's dogs that are posting on this thread and they certainly dont walk around with their head in the clouds treating their babies like a harmless bichon freise! the way im reading CPBs posts is that yes they are different to other breeds in their physical make-up and their drive but underneath it they're still dogs and respond in roughly the same way all dogs do to stimuli.

yes they can be predisposed to wanting a go and they definitly have the physical power to do major damage but when it comes down to it they can be trained just like a labrador. they respond to the same methods, infact they may well respond better as they are so eager to please.

whether this translates to being able to train out aggression is different in each case and im 100% certain that there are plenty that cant be 'tamed'. ive been around dogs that could definitly be called 'psycho' and will never back down but on the other hand, im sure in other cases it can be controlled. people can only give answers based on their own experience and going on the replies here, people's experiences with the breed and their personalities differ quite a bit.

as an example ill go back to what i experience on a daily basis. dolly has a serious hard-on for getting at swans along the canal. at first i literally had to drag her past any swans, she was frothing and screaming to get at them but with constant attention to the issue i can now walk her past the swans without her losing the head. she will still eye them up, she's still in prey drive mode but she knows i dont approve so she just lets it go. but im under no illusions, if she was on her own there would be carnage!

now i know we're talking two different types of drives and i can only speak from what i experience but it is a full on prey drive and at first it looked like i was never going to control it. the focus and determination to get at the swans is exactly the same response that a highly DA dog has to other dogs. she wanted to do serious damage, she got into a very high state of excitment at the prospect.

my point being that with some dogs who are all about pleasing the master (as a lot of pits and staffies are), they will respond to training just like any other dog. some will never take the training but can be controlled.. and then some are just nuts

as always, thats all just my opinion. your mileage may vary

thanks dolly i might as well talk 2 the wall. And after owning the breed since i was 11, fighting 4 the breed the last 5 year with bsl, working with any amount of the in rescue and training classes, helping people out with issues their dogs have had not 2 mention keeping my own and being more responsibe than some i no, providing people with training venue's and sports days. Pretty much most of my life and most of my time and u have these blow in's that think they know it all. Funny im the 1 that will cause problem's 4 the breed, but hay what do i know? I've been around more pit's than most here have had hot dinners.